Turkey 2009: Post-Qualifying Car Weights
The post-qualifying weights of the cars competing in the Turkish Grand Prix have been (not quite) published by the FIA, and from the data provided we can see who did well during Saturday’s running and who did not. Also, from this data and Williams’s reckoning that a normalised distance of 5km around Istanbul Park requires 2.49kg of fuel, we can work out that the 5.338km circuit would use 2.66kg of fuel. Taking away the minimum car-and-driver weight of 605kg, plus 2 laps (5.32kg) for grid forming and margin, we can have a guess at when each of the drivers will stop first.
Turkey 2009
|
Car Weight
|
Fuel Weight
|
First Stop
|
|
| 1. |  Sebastian Vettel Red Bull Racing |
649.5 | 39.2 | 15 |
| 2. |  Jenson Button Brawn |
655.5 | 45.2 | 17 |
| 3. |  Rubens Barrichello Brawn |
652.5 | 42.2 | 16 |
| 4. |  Mark Webber Red Bull Racing |
656 | 45.7 | 17 |
| 5. |  Jarno Trulli Toyota |
652 | 41.7 | 16 |
| 6. |  Kimi Raikkonen Ferrari |
658 | 47.7 | 18 |
| 7. | Felipe Massa Ferrari |
654 | 43.7 | 16 |
| 8. |  Fernando Alonso Renault |
644.5 | 34.2 | 13 |
| 9. | Nico Rosberg Williams |
660 | 49.7 | 19 |
| 10. |  Robert Kubica BMW |
664 | 53.7 | 20 |
| 11. | Nick Heidfeld BMW |
681.5 | 71.2 | 27 |
| 12. |  Kazuki Nakajima Williams |
680.4 | 70.1 | 26 |
| 13. | Timo Glock Toyota |
689 | 78.7 | 30 |
| 14. | Heikki Kovalainen McLaren |
665 | 54.7 | 21 |
| 15. | Adrian Sutil Force India |
668.5 | 58.2 | 22 |
| 16. | Lewis Hamilton McLaren |
696.5 | 86.2 | 32 |
| 17. | Nelson Piquet Jr. Renault |
689.6 | 79.3 | 30 |
| 18. |  Sebastien Buemi Scuderia Toro Rosso |
686.5 | 76.2 | 29 |
| 19. | Giancarlo Fisichella Force India |
688.5 | 78.2 | 29 |
| 20. |  Sebastien Bourdais Scuderia Toro Rosso |
701 | 90.7 | 34 |
Sebastian Vettel is a little lighter than both the Brawn pilots, but there is only one lap in it to Rubens Barrichello and two to Jenson Button. Interestingly, Jenson Button managed to out-qualify his team mate with a heavier car, indicating that Barrichello wasn’t entirely happy with the handling of his BGP 001. The rest of the top-ten is fairly standard, with Kimi Raikkonen Nico Rosberg and Robert Kubica being the heaviest. Although Fernando Alonso sticks out a little as being light in comparison to those around him – I’d expect Alonso to make up a place or two at the start.
Heikki Kovalainen and Adrian Sutil in P14 and P15 respectively have very similar fuel loads. This should make for some interesting viewing tomorrow, as Lewis Hamilton lost out to Sutil in qualifying, the Force India pilot making his Mercedes-powered car go faster than the similarly powered McLaren. If Kovalainen cannot get away from Sutil, then I fear there may be trouble on the horizon for the Finn.
Nick Heidfeld, Kazuki Nakajima and Timo Glock could be attempting a two-stopper, each having enough fuel to get to around the halfway mark. Also going for the mid-race point before stopping are Lewis Hamilton and Sebastien Bourdais (the two heaviest on the grid) and possibly Giancarlo Fisichella, Sebastien Buemi and Nelson Piquet Jr.
The starting tyre choice for the two-stoppers will depend on what the track temperature does tomorrow afternoon. As we saw in qualifying today, the track could easily pass the 45°C mark, which is the recommended limit Bridgestone have imposed on the soft compound. Interestingly though, the track cooled slightly as qualifying progressed, indicating that the two-stoppers may want to start on the hard and move to the soft.
- The qualifying results can be viewed here: Turkey 2009: Qualifying Result.
- The live qualifying notes can be viewed here: Turkey 2009: Live Qualifying Notes.
- The grid (inclusive of penalties) can be viewed here once published: Turkey 2009: The Grid.
- The qualifying report can be viewed here: Turkey 2009: Sebastian Vettel Takes Pole Position Ahead Of Brawns.
Kathi
June 6th, 2009 - 4:03pm
The top 10 can’t fill up anymore, to the declared weight, after q3 right? So if somebody (like I think Kimi today) did a lot of laps in q3 he will have to stop earlier than the declared weight implies?
Oliver White
June 6th, 2009 - 4:07pm
Oooh, that’s a good point. Previously I had always assumed that the drivers would each run pretty much the same number of laps in Q3 – 2 runs of 3 or 4 laps. But Kimi was out first today, although I’m not sure if he did do more laps than anyone else. I’ll see if I can find though.
Good spot Kathi, and to think the post isn’t even complete yet!
Kathi
June 6th, 2009 - 4:28pm
Forix: http://forix.autosport.com/gp.php?l=0&r=20090007&c=133
me
June 6th, 2009 - 4:31pm
damn that was quick ollie!
Oliver White
June 6th, 2009 - 4:37pm
Was about to check time-stamps in Google Reader against Autosport, but then remembered I posted ahead of time and added the table in afterwards. But yeah, it was pretty quick – taking a race off must’ve helped! And having a spreadsheet with all the formulas in place helps to speed the math side of things up a little.
Kathi
June 6th, 2009 - 5:04pm
Didn’t mean it as criticism to your entry. It was just a question.
Oliver White
June 6th, 2009 - 5:09pm
I know. I didn’t intend for that to be taken as a comment of being criticised, I know you weren’t criticising. I was surprised that anybody found enough reason to comment when the real data for the post wasn’t even up yet. But you managed it by pointing something out that I had never considered before – it’s all good, I promise!
alan
June 6th, 2009 - 5:12pm
when do they weight the cars? i’d presumed it was after the end of the q3 session, otherwise the estimated laps would include the six laps minimum to do two runs!
Kathi
June 6th, 2009 - 5:16pm
OK
Next question: Rubens did 5 laps and Jenson 6. Who used more fuel?
Jenson has more laps but 4 of them were slow(er) in/out-laps.
bigphil
June 6th, 2009 - 5:33pm
Thanks for these tables. Cannot find confirmation on the web but the weights published are the weights as they are now in parc ferme. So what they are is what they are. But then the lap calculation needs to also take into account that some, such as the red cars, are much heavier on fuel than others. Going to be a spiffing race mind!
Eri
June 6th, 2009 - 8:08pm
No, declared weight only for outside top10. Whilst top10 measured after showdown.
Jackie
June 6th, 2009 - 8:40pm
Ollie, do you have details of who was on which tyre during quali somewhere on the site?
Oliver White
June 6th, 2009 - 8:44pm
I don’t, but don’t think I haven’t considered it
For Spain i was trying to figure out a way of doing it as well as other posts (the recording of the info is the hardest bit). I’ll think about it again before Silverstone.
And yeah, I wanna know who has what tyres left for the race, and who set what time on what compound in qualifying.
Does anyone else know of a source for this info? Y’know, temporarily, before BF1 becomes the source.
Oliver White
June 6th, 2009 - 8:49pm
This is very true (that the cars have different fuel consumption rates), but there is only so far I can realistically take it. I chose Williams’s data because they were the first I found, via F1Minute. I could dig out info from all 10 teams and tailor their estimated first-stop-lap to each team, but that would take far too long.
You are right though, bigphil, it isn’t 100% perfect. And of course, a safety car, early pitstop due to damage (and a sly glug o’gas) or rain would completely throw the prediction out of the window. As would a change in strategy by any of the drivers.
Jackie
June 6th, 2009 - 8:57pm
Thanks Ollie
Afraid not, I was wondering if there was any way that info could be incorporated into the fuel-adjusted grid but I have failed outright in trying to get hold of it.
Oliver White
June 6th, 2009 - 9:21pm
I’ve been wanting to do a fuel-adjusted grid ever since I saw the Beeb do it for this season. But like you I suspect, I would want it to incorporate everything and be a proper ‘who the bleedin’ hell is fastest’ grid.
Oh how I long for next year and no more stoopid fuel issues interrupting qualifying. Funny how it’s taken the FIA several years to revert on this [race fuel level] idea. Normally they cotton on to their errors quite quickly and fiddle it mid-season. I would say they live and learn, but that would be a blatant lie.
Alianora La Canta
June 8th, 2009 - 12:25pm
The top 10 can’t fill up anymore, to the declared weight, after q3 right? {Kathi – 20 comments ago}
The declared weight is taken after Q3 ends, so that shouldn’t be a factor. This is also why the FIA can check the weights of the Q3 participants with certainty instead of having to calculate whether they did more/fewer laps than expected.
Alianora La Canta
June 8th, 2009 - 12:27pm
when do they weight the cars? i’d presumed it was after the end of the q3 session, otherwise the estimated laps would include the six laps minimum to do two runs! {alan – 10 comments ago}
It’s done after Q3 and, in the case of those not in Q3, after they’ve fuelled to their content – there is a time limit of, I think, 30 minutes for this because they can do the weighing of the 10 Q3 entrants while waiting.
Alianora La Canta
June 8th, 2009 - 12:31pm
And yeah, I wanna know who has what tyres left for the race, and who set what time on what compound in qualifying.
Does anyone else know of a source for this info? Y’know, temporarily, before BF1 becomes the source. {Oliver White – 6 comments ago}
Sorry, I don’t know for sure either. I have enough trouble manually tracking what the Force Indias are on without trying to do it for others.
An all-weekend tyre thing would be useful, since the allocation for tyres begins in FP1 on Friday. However, I think we’d have to rely on Bridgestone being bothered to tell us rather than collect the data ourselves.