Comments on: Why Are Toyota Competing In Formula One?

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[...] Why Are Toyota Competing In Formula One? [...]

By: Alianora La Canta

Alianora La Canta — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 23:27:12 +0000

My guess, from the confusion there seems to be between words and actions, is that Toyota really are in it to win it – but haven’t got that message through to everyone in the upper hierarchy, let alone figured out the basic lessons on how to do it.

Oh, and the conversation Brad mentions reminds me of someone else who said something very similar about their team. It was Alex Shnaider, talking about Jordan at the time he renamed it Midland, ten months before he sold it to Spyker. Not the greatest of omens…

By: Gary Shavit

Gary Shavit — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:25:33 +0000

Read Allan McNish’s comments about Toyota (on Autosport.com). There may be people there who know what is needed to win. (At least there was with Gascoyne.) But will it ever be implemented with the present structure? Not likely.
They have to see that even Honda is going for a Team Boss structure that can get things done.

Gary Shavit
Netanya Israel

By: Oliver White

Oliver White — Sun, 13 Jan 2008 11:21:01 +0000

Wow, thanks guys. There are some great comments here and some interesting ideas. I'm pleased I'm not the only one puzzled by Toyota. @Steven: Check out Brad's post regarding a possible change in the ownership structure of Williams. I always presumed Toyota would eventually buy-out Frank's team and use them as a satellite squad. But apparently that may now be off-the-cards.

By: Brad Spurgeon

Brad Spurgeon — Sun, 13 Jan 2008 08:47:44 +0000

That probably pokes a definitive hole in the whole argument, Milos!

By: milos

milos — Sun, 13 Jan 2008 03:32:09 +0000

presence is important to them perhaps, but then they should work on it. just walk around the mecrahndising area of any F1 race and look for the most boring booth with the most boring merchandise … look around the grandstands and try to find some fans wearing Toyota shirts or caps (Fuji may be an exemption but even there Honda and Super Aguri fans probably rule…)… Toyota does poor job both on and off the track and do not really see how a POOR presence in the top echelon of motorsport can help a company like Toyota (unless the tax write off is indeed the benefit they are after )

By: Steven Royry

Steven Royry — Sun, 13 Jan 2008 02:55:22 +0000

You don’t make as many changes as Toyota have unless you want to be competitive. If you are only there to be seen then why not keep the same people together because it is a well proven fact that consistency of personnel brings results so if you only want to be seen and not spend more than necessary that is the way to do it. The Mike Gascoyne signing cost a lot of money and the only justification for that is to produce results.

I think they want to succeed but cannot bring themselves culturally do what is necessary to succeed. Anyone moving into a new competitive environment looks at what the successful people are doing and either copy it or adopt the bits you think will benefit you.

I can’t see anything changing dramatically at Toyota over the next couple of years. If I had to run the Toyota F1 operation and keep within their culture I would drop the team and supply engines to Williams and supply 100% of their sponsorship and let Frank do the winning in a car that had Toyota written all over it. If they started that now they could have a championship in two years.

By: Brad Spurgeon

Brad Spurgeon — Sat, 12 Jan 2008 19:45:07 +0000

Craig, that’s a pertinent point. But it also makes me start to ask questions. A couple of years ago Toyota had what was perhaps not quite the best publicity: The biggest budget in the sport, nearly half a billion dollars spent per season. Is it possible they have greatly reduced the budget and been asked to increase the results? I guess these are questions that will make for a good story next year – after speaking to people at the team?!

By: Craig

Craig — Sat, 12 Jan 2008 17:46:46 +0000

Surely someone happy with just being in the sport and not winning wouldn’t necessarily be spending quite as much as Toyota are apparently spending year on year?

By: Brad Spurgeon

Brad Spurgeon — Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:01:00 +0000

I agree with you entirely, Ollie. It’s a scary thought, and that’s why I did put it out of my mind to a degree – until seeing your blog item today.
What you now say raises a third possible explanation for what I heard from this Toyota director: Although he did not put it this way, perhaps what he meant was that, well, “Even during this period in which we’re not capable of winning there is a purpose to being in the sport….”
While it was a comment made in a coversation, and not during an interview, I must say that Toyota’s best defence will be to prove us all wrong and come through with a winning car in the next couple of years.
I’m looking forward to watching the Glock/Trulli dynamic….

By: Oliver White

Oliver White — Sat, 12 Jan 2008 13:19:09 +0000

Thanks for stopping by Brad, your first-hand accounts are always welcome, no matter how vague you have to be.

You know, that is a tricky phrase to get my head around. Surely winning is the motivation of every single person involved in the sport? Fair enough, you have to be realistic, but ultimately I would be disappointed if Vijay Mallya or Gerhard Berger said they didn’t necessarily care if they eventually won or not. Being number one is the goal in any sport. If it isn’t, it almost questions the validity of the sport, or entrant in this case.

If Toyota aren’t in Formula One with the goal to win, then I honestly feel they should be kicked out. At minimum, it makes a mockery of there “One Aim” slogan. I don’t want to watch a team that is only there to make up the numbers.

By: Brad Spurgeon

Brad Spurgeon — Sat, 12 Jan 2008 08:47:07 +0000

Ollie, when I read your headline and then a little into the story, something clicked in my brain. Early last season, at the Malaysian Grand Prix, in fact, I had a casual conversation with a top Toyota team director at an F1 event. I don’t want to say who it was, since while the talk was not stated as being off the record, it did take place in a kind of off-the-record environment. I cannot remember the exact phrase that this person said to me, but it was to the effect that, “You know, it is possible to take part in Formula One in order to be part of the sport and not necessarily have to win….” At the time I brushed it off as just a kind of spoiled sport sort of reaction to the team’s inability thus far to win. The person said something to the effect of helping out the sport, other teams, “having a presence.” My feeling was that it was just a way to justify and coping with the failure. I mentioned it to a fellow F1 journalist and he laughed it off, saying that there was no way Toyota would want to be in the sport to fill out the grid, and, of course, we’ve now seen that the team has been given a couple of years to succeed.

But your intuition certainly made bells ring in my head….

By: Oliver White

Oliver White — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 19:07:30 +0000

And then Clive enters stage left with a witty, succinct reason and fair point.

Wise words Craig, particularly your final sentence.

Gary, welcome. Toyota certainly have been involved in their fair share of controversy over the years. It almost makes me wonder if now, when they’re being honest (well, as honest as the other teams) their true competitive abilities have faded.

By: Gary Shavit

Gary Shavit — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 18:12:54 +0000

I think that Toyota are in F1 mostly for the legitimacy. They are close to being the largest car manufacturer (or they are, depending on who is counting and how), but they feel that they don’t have the respect of Mercedes, Ford, etc. I think that they want the glamour and glory that F1 can provide more than the sales it could generate.

The lack of results, may just be because they are incapable. They invested a lot in Le Mans, but were never able to win. The were successful in WRC, but who knows how many of those victories were the results of the cheating that eventually got them kicked out of the championship. It seems that they tried to steal Ferrari data in the beginning of their F1 career, but that didn’t help.

I’m sure that they want to win. But I don’t think that they know how. And it doesn’t seem that they will ever learn. If they asked me, I would advise them to just supply Williams (and maybe another team) with engines, and settle for whatever Sir Frank can deliver.

Gary Shavit
Netanya, Israel

By: Clive

Clive — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 15:51:11 +0000

Maybe it’s useful as a tax write-off…

By: Craig

Craig — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:39:53 +0000

Given a choice between the known Totyota performance as an F1 team, and the unknown performance of Prodrive were they to step in and take over Toyota’s place as a full manufacturer of their own car – I’d take Prodrive every time.

Or practically anyone else to be honest – Toyota have proven that no matter what resources they have, be they financial resources or human resources, they simply don’t know how to be a success in F1. In fact they seem to conspire to get rid of the good things and keep everything that is wrong – right from the first year when they got rid of both drivers (who didn’t appear to have done anything wrong).

I could see the point of spending such vast sums of money just to simply have an F1 presence if Toyota made true sportscars or at least decent performance versions of the cars they do produce – such as BMW with their M-cars – but even their roadcar lineup is lacklustre.

I’m surprised by so many things – mainly why they are still in F1 at all, but also why, when they were competing against BMW and Mercedes, they didn’t enter as Lexus and then push road going performance versions of those models on the back of their F1 entry.

Toyota in F1 hasn’t been a mistake, it has been a catalogue of mistake after mistake after mistake!